I can’t imagine a possible scenario in which someone who’s been a fan of the MCU so far doesn’t enjoy The Winter Soldier. Honestly, the only thing wrong with that movie for me was that I’ll never get to watch it for the first time again. It’s, of course, not strictly based on the respective arc in the comics, but, in all honesty, it didn’t matter at all. I found it absolutely brilliant. I might even dare to say that it was the best, apart from the Avengers, so far. Brilliant.
Odin and Loki on Jane.
Isn’t it interesting that Odin says, in effect, “don’t attach yourself to humans because their mortality makes them unworthy” while Loki says “don’t attach yourself to humans because their mortality will cause you pain”.
Imagine AoA Loki inviting his old villainy friends over to his obnoxiously pink apartment
(4) Hello! I’m sorry that I’m going to answer this publicly, please don’t hold back from asking me to delete it if you’re not comfortable with it. I’ve just noticed that the matter of genocide in the MCU is something that has been going around a lot lately, and I thought I should explain myself about what I meant yesterday and how I view the issue in general.
First of all, I’m sorry if I made it sound like the issue is something that I can’t handle. I was trying to be as brief about it as possible last night, so to make myself clear and keep from accidentally offending someone who might be more sensitive to it than I am, I have to say that I have not experienced genocide personally, I’m way too young for that to have happened. My grandparents’ generation is the one which the cleansing was inflicted upon, and it’s the reason I grew up and live in the country that I do, the reason my family still searches for possible surviving lost relatives, the reason my grandparents’ mother tongue is lost to me and generally the family tragedy I grew up learning about, but it still is not something traumatising to me, as I have not experienced it. In sort, it’s a personal issue that is very close to my heart and it does particularly bother me when people take it lightly, but it’s not anything I can’t handle, so, please, don’t tiptoe or refrain talking about it around me.
Now, to the matter in question, what I meant when I mentioned the misuse of the term ‘genocide’ included both extremes of the discussion: over-using it and denying that it ever happened, the second being more prominent than the first. As far as over-using it is concerned, I’m going to be brief and say that what Loki did on Midgard does not count as ‘attempted genocide’ in any way. I’m not denying the gravity of the crime of an invasive war or the conquering of a region by force and the use of weapons, neither the murder of innocent people, I’m merely pointing out that neither of them applies to the definition of genocide. Loki did not try ro exterminate Midgard’s inhabitants or civilisation, period. His crimes were equally real and grave, but different to their core.
As far as the opposite is concerned, there are more I’d like to say, as this is mainly the ‘use’ of the term that really grinds my gears. I don’t give a flying fuck if Bor’s war against the Dark Elves was defensive. I am not denying that it was, I’m just saying that in this particular case it simply does not matter. Odin clearly stated that he considered all the Dark Elves to be dead. He denied their existence, not as an imperialistic force, but as a nation. Bor simply attempted (and almost succeeded) to slaughter them all. Not their leaders, not their warriors, all of them. All. Of. Them.That includes their children, their women, their elderly population, everyone that didn’t take part in the war, everyone. It has come to my attention that there are people in the fandom that hold the belief that the genocide of the Dark Elves is not valid as long as it happened during a period of war, but you know what? Genocides, ethnic cleansings, massacres and holocausts do not happen at a time of peace. May it be war, may it be the aftermath of a war, may it be severe political crises, it’s always something. Does that render every genocide that has happened in history invalid? Let me tell you, the genocide of the people of my nation is genarally recognised worldwide by everyone. Everyone except of the government of the country thar committed it. That means that despite all the fights that are still happening over that matter, despite the support of almost every nation, there is always going to be someone to render the massacre of the largest percentage of the population invalid. And this is why, the way Odin presents his father’s war actions in the Dark World as heroic is not reliable. History is written by the winners. And winners rarely admit to their crimes. Of course, neither Bor’s or Odin’s war crimes are an excuse of Loki’s actions against neither Jotunheim, nor Midgard, that’s not in any way what I meant. Everyone’s crimes are equally real. As I said before, the realisation of Odin’s faults and the realisation of Loki’s faults are not mutually exclusive.
So, that’s all I had to say on the matter, and sorry for the ranting. Thank you for being so nice and considerate and for sending this message, unlike a very big part of the fandom that apparently discusses these issues as if they were only part of a fantasy world, and not something that, god forbid happened in real life and are the life story of some real people.
I guess what I’ve been trying to say is that, the realisation of what a dick Loki really is and the realisation of what a dick Odin really is are not mutually exclusive.
I feel like I have to say something about what has been going down around here for the past weeks, partly ‘cause I feel bad pretending that everything is going smooth and lovely, but mainly ‘cause I’m one of those people that were never taught how to shut up and saying nothing for so long is finally starting to get overwhelming. I know that I have not been an active member of the fandom for some time, not in the sense that I have not been around at all, but in that I’ve been avoiding taking part in conversations, stating opinions or just generally talking to people.
There has been a big conflict between members of Loki’s Resistance and a big part of the rest of the fandom, which, to be honest and say things as they are, has, objectively, reached ridiculous proportions. It’s one thing to disagree with the opinion of a person or a group, and it’s a completely different one to let your displeasure with it turn into personal aggression, especially when the matter in discussion is pretty much based on different views on a piece of fiction. (Yes, I do realize how, for some of you, the discussion reflects respective real life issues, but let’s face it, arguments about a fictional universe are, generally, not a matter of life and death). I, honestly, can’t for the life of me pinpoint the exact moment in the fandom when mature, intelligent and sane discussions turned into personal attacks, childish insults and feelings of being personally offended and scandalised by people actively disagreeing with your opinion, neither what exactly was the thing that triggered it. And I, definitely, don’t understand the idea of forming internet ‘cliques’ and forcing every member of the fandom that wants to analyze their opinion to ‘pick a side’.
The thing is, I don’t want to pick a side. I agree with many of the views of Loki’s Resistance, which mainly have to do with Loki’s status as an ‘evil character’, the unfair treatment between his and other characters’ questionable (to say the least) actions and the corruption and societal issues of Asgard as a regime in general (which only makes it more realistic and convincing as a fabricated civilization, by the way), and those are all opinions I have ranted about in the past. I also disagree with many of LR’s opinions, primarily concerning the villainisation of Thor and a couple of other characters and, in the case of some people, the denial of every significant and undeniable fault (again, to say the least) in Loki’s personality or of recognising his crimes as such, and these are also things I have talked about some time ago. Oh, and the offensive generalization of everyone disagreeing with the above opinions as being “blind” and “shallow”.
On the other hand, I agree with many of the views of the portion of the fandom opposing the Resistance, which are pretty much identical to the points I mentioned above concerning what ideas of LR i can’t get behind, and outright disagree with many others, such as, the refusal to see wickedness in any of the characters that the script doesn’t see as antagonists (did anybody mention Odin), a general feeling of imagining the characters on both sides as more two-dimensional that, I think, they were intended as (and judging them accordingly) and most of all, the personal and uncalled for attacks against members of Loki’s Resistance just for the sake of being an asshole.
(There’s also this thing about the anti-LR side of the argument that particularly grinds my gears, and that is the over/misuse of the term ‘genocide’, which as a person with a family/ethnic background which genocide has been inflicted upon is very close to my heart, but this is neither the time nor the place for that discussion.)
I guess what I’ve been trying to say with all that pointless, uncalled for and probably obnoxious ranting is that creating in-fandom, political-party-like cliques and sticking to the ideology of your ‘community’ to the point of hating on and victimising others is something that, for me, needs to stop right now. There is obviously not only one way to view such in-depth issues about a fictional universe, especially since, sometimes, not even its creators seem to be entirely sure, or at least, in the same page about them. Also, not everyone’s opinion has to fit in the box of made-up communities inside the same fucking fandom. I guess I just liked everything much better before intelligent people started unprovokedly acting like aggressive five year olds.